This post has been a long time coming. Yesterday morning Shiner e-mailed me to tell me that he'd just sent his stimulus check to his American Express, and that the balance on that card was now below $7,500. To understand how huge this is, I need to give you a little background.
Back before we decided to get married, I knew Shiner had credit card debt. He knew that I had none. From what he said about it, I guessed he had about $10,000 in debt--not a small amount, but not paralyzing. I knew he was sending payments beyond his minimums to try to pay it down. He knew it was important to me that he was doing that. And I trusted that he had it pretty well in hand.
So we decided to get married. And it was great. We didn't tell our parents or our friends right away, we just kept it to ourselves for a little bit, and savored the fact that we had this exciting, fantastic secret. And then we decided to pay for the wedding ourselves, so we start talking about possible dates and budgets and how much we could save each month and how all those pieces fit together. How about Fall 2008? Yes, Fall of 2008 would be lovely. I've always had a thing for fall, anyway.
And I told him I really wanted his credit card debt gone by the time we got married, that I thought he can do it, and we should account for that in setting realistic saving targets. OK, he said.
Except when he added up his credit card debt, it was nearly $42,000.
I needed it to sink in, too. $42,000.
He'd never done the math before. That was more than his annual gross salary. I was aghast. I felt blindsided. I felt pissed off. I told him we couldn't set a date. I couldn't set a date. I grew up in a fantastically debt-averse household. I am a debt Puritan. I couldn't live the way he'd been living for the past few years. Whether he realized it or not, he'd gone off the deep end and I wasn't going to legally hitch my wagon to his until he'd come back from the precipice, and until I trusted that he would not inch back up on it again after we got married. It felt like financial infidelity, even though his accounts were all still his and my accounts were all still mine. It wasn't as though he'd been deliberately deceiving me, that was just a side effect of having been deceiving himself. I still loved him, still wanted to marry him, but all of a sudden I didn't feel like I could trust him not to drag me into a hole with him. And that lack of trust is a pretty good sign that we shouldn't get married quite yet.
So then all of a sudden we weren't getting married. Not in the foreseeable future, anyway. Certainly not by Fall 2008. Maybe not for a couple of years. Who knows? If he wasn't able or--more scary, willing--to rejigger his financial life, maybe never. It was so awful. I remember very little of the specifics because I basically zoned out of my life. I took at least two mental health days, days when I just couldn't drag myself to work. I think Shiner felt even worse, though. He was like the walking dead. Remember, we still hadn't told our families or our friends, so neither of us had anyone we felt comfortable talking to about the situation. I alternated between wanting to comfort him and resenting that he'd been such a bonehead about it in the first place. The guy went to school for accounting! How could he not get that he was spending way more money than he had? Did he not care?
Not setting a date was tough on me, but it was killing Shiner. God love him, while I was being a logical, self-preserving hardass, he just wanted to get maaaarriiiied. A couple of days after the big reveal, he came up with a plan, hoping to get me confident enough in him and his financial committment to set a date. His plan basically involved spending nothing, cashing in all of his investments, getting a second job, opening a couple of zero-percent balance transfer cards, and working like a damn dog to pay off his two high-interest, high-balance cards by the end of 2008 so we could get married in January 2009. It was going to be tight, but it was theoretically possible.
We made some tweaks (I wasn't about to let him cash out the tiny amount he had in his retirement account for my benefit--not when the whole point was for us to be old and doddering together), and he went into action. I stayed anxious, but was slightly optimistic. I could tell his heart was in the right place, but I was worried about his follow through. I decided I was OK with setting a date and making some plans, but I was also only putting down deposits I was willing to forfeit if Shiner didn't follow through and I had to call the whole thing off. I knew he wouldn't be able to pay everything off by the time we got married. That was, and is, simply too steep a hil for such a short period of time. But if he could pay off the two high-interest cards, he'd owe a third of what he started out with and would have worked his ass off in the process. I don't need perfection. Working his ass off was good enough to prove to me that he knew it was serious. We could tackled the rest together.
Shiner has been too embarassed for me to blog about this before, and I have respected that. But I think he's surprised himself with the numbers, and is so proud of himself he's told me I can blog about his debt now. I think he wants me to blog about it.
So what's the status update? Shiner has:
...for a total credit card debt of $19,765.
Compared with his original balance of $41,935, that is phenomenal progress--a 53% reduction in less than six months! In a follow-up post I'll describe how he's done it and how the realization that I am "marrying debt" has affected my approach to money, debt, and us.
28 comments:
Thanks so much for sharing your (and his) story, I know it must be hard. It sounds like a great effort to reduce his CC debt by over 50% in 6 months and he has gone about it in a smart way, carefully using CCs with 0% interest. It was probably smart on your part to get this settled, or at least headed in the right direction, before you officially tied the knot. I'm sure you're happy you found out about the balance before, rather than after you got married.
I tried to leave a comment earlier, but, sadly, I think the page froze on me.
I loved this post. You've demonstrated the best of PF blogging: a personal, interesting, inspiring money story.
And CONGRATULATIONS!! to Shiner on what's already been done. That is truly impressive.
That's really very impressive. I'm looking forward to seeing how he did it.
This is such an important topic, thank you so much for sharing.
Hi! I just arrived from the reference given to your site at Feministing.com.
I need some more context. Does your marriage plan involve a joint account? While we're at it, is a joint account needed for the tax benefits of marriage? I don't think it does, so couldn't you get married and keep your accounts separate? After my parents' messy divorce, I for one am convinced that legally combined assets is a bad idea on principle. You can still "combine" assets, but individual dollars and cents should each have only one name written on them. If things go according to plan, there's no problem, but if they don't, then... problems.
Of course, I could still see your concern about his debt. Even ignoring the hitching together of financial wagons, one wants people one cares about to not be in debt purely out of the personal concern for their well-being that defines close relationships, with the convenient side effect that it avoids you having to bail them out at some point in the future.
I'm a debt Puritan too, and really, I just want to applaud you for being smart about money and debt yourself, and Shiner for a pretty remarkable turnaround. It can be done.
I know Shiner didn't want you tell this story, so I applaud him for his courage. It is great to see that he is working so hard at erasing his debt.
AR, we do have a joint account though it's basically an electronic cubbyhole for transfering money back and forth to one another for utilities, some of which are in my name and some of which are in his. We are going to keep some separate accounts after we get married, but are still figuring out what expenses will get paid out of what account (shared versus joint) and most of the savings will become joint savings.
My two big concerns with his debt load were (1) that our household cash flow was going to be seriously different than I'd expected, since his debt load was so much higher--this meant serious limitations on what he'd be able to contribute to retirement savings, of which he has very little, or to shared savings goals or family expenses. Those things made me concerned for him, and for me too (large committed expenses = big fear of job loss, for example, since I'm the bigger earner).
And (2) that if he did not change his debt-accruing ways, or went back to them after we get hitched, I would be to some extent legally responsible for the after-marriage debt he rang up even if it was in his name only. This is something we are going to address in a prenup for my peace of mind and as a show of good faith from him. But absent that prenup, if we were to divorce I would get socked with a share of that new debt, and even with the prenup I would still get calls from creditors if anything went into debt collection. So while I don't take on legal responsibility for the debt he had before marriage by virtue of tying the knot, I was more worried about the underlying behavior cropping up again, because that would go down on my permanent record in this stae, and in every other state we've looked at possibly moving to. There's no crystal ball telling me whether he will start racking up more debt again, but the experience of gnawing off his own leg, metaphorically speaking, to aggressively pay it down makes me think he'll be less likely to do it again, and makes me feel way more confident about taking the plunge.
Makes sense to me. At least, the part that came after the idea of getting married in the first place makes sense to me. That first part I don't understand, but assuming marriage a priori, I see where you're coming from.
Wow! And again: wow!!! $42,000 in credit card debt, and he's killed more than half of it already. I'm impressed, and what's more, I'm inspired.
I often wonder about my own marriage prospects with lingering credit card debt (less than $3K now!), student loan debt, and a mortgage that is just a tiny bit too much for my salary. I'm finally working on all of it, being smarter about my finances, and no longer living above my means, so maybe there's hope for me yet.
This was a great post! Thanks!
Congrats to both of you. when I married my husband he owed a significant amount in back taxes (3 years' worth) and had a terrible credit rating. I asked him to work with the IRS to get on a payment plan and pay off the taxes, and he's done a great job, paying a really large chunk monthly for the past 4 years. It's almost gone! And, his credit rating is much improved.
That said, we have separate accounts and different household bills we pay-- and I am responsible for the time-sensitive ones like the mortgage, while he pays the cable and phone bills, that type of thing. That way I have peace of mind. I am also in charge of retirement savings. (I also make more money than he does.)
People are sometimes surprised that we have separate accounts after being married for almost 5 years. But it's what works for us. I think situations like ours are what makes marriage work, actually-- we treat each other as individuals and respect our limitations, while working together to be better.
(I don't mean to imply I am perfect. My issues tend to be non-financial, though.)
That's incredible. Congratulations Shiner, and FF!
I'm sorry, I didn't sleep last night so I'm not very up to speed at the moment. Actually, I do understand where marriage is beneficial, because I explicitly mentioned one such benefit in my previous post: tax benefits. Nevermind my tired ramblings...
Another reader transferred from Feministing.
This is a great post on a great blog. So great, in fact, that I just read it aloud on the back porch to my equally feminist housemate!
I'm really inspired by Shiner's commitment to save (and to you!)
I was particularly interested because I've just committed to a pricey graduate school degree, and even though I value the education, I am seriously worried about the debt, and the way it may effect how a future (romantic) partner could perceive me. The cost of my grad school program is $42K a year (it's a two year program), $10K of which the government expects me to come up with by August, while only making $30K a year.
Needless to say, in the last two months I had to come up with a strategy (short of selling my eggs or something equally drastic) to save up $10,000 in three months - and I think I have just about done it. :)
Now if only I had figured that out six months ago, in which case I could have paid off the $10,000 I'm still carrying from my undergraduate degree!
This is a fantastic post.
a) i am SO impressed (and inspired) and b) i am in a similar situation and have been amazed to see my beloved halve his consumer debt in just a few months and c) oh crap, i forgot c and d) it's cool that the two of you will always know from this experience that you can be open with eachother even when it's hurtful and that you really can tackle seemingly improbable situations together. that's so awesome.
Another new reader via feministing...
Great post! Please, please do follow-up with another on how your partner managed to accomplish so much in so little time. I'm with a great guy who's much better off financially than I am, and I dread having "the talk" with him. I would love to work down my credit card debt before he even has to know it ever existed.
WAY TO GO! That is amazing. And really great that Shiner has trusted you enought to tell you the truth about his debt and to really work hard in paying it off -- I am blown away by how much he has accomplished.
When my husband and I married 5 years ago, he had a lien on all his assets by the IRS for not paying taxes in 1998. We received a great deal of cash for our wedding and I though "Great! Now we can pay a lawyer to resolve your tax issues, and we can move forward!" But it wasn't that easy as he had such deeply entrenched shame issues about his debt, etc -- that he was paralyzed for months about it. But we finally worked through it, and have made adeal with the IRS. But It really almost ruined our marriage, and I think you did the right thing handlling things the way you have.
I came over from Mrs. Micah and think this is such a wonderful, inspiring story. Thank you (and Shiner) for sharing it with us.
I love, love, love that you are so communicative with each other, and the depth of commitment that is so obvious. Keep it up even after you're married! :)
I've also come over from Mrs. Micah and I have to say I'm impressed. I'm impressed that Shiner has managed to pay off so much of his debt.
I'm also impressed and really, really pleased that you thought it was important to work out where you stood financially once you both decided to get married.
I hope you have a great paid-for wedding, and a very happy life together.
Thanks for sharing... I'm linking to this. This is an important subject, for sure
HAI,
i am a new one for this site.
i am really happy to visit this site and get more info.
this give much more interesting info.
i didn't know about the feminist finance.
but this site give info about this.
thanks.
===================
jim2008
The best online resources and information for credit card debt.
==========================
http://www.stop-credit-card-debt.com
I'm extremely impressed by his work. You are so smart to require that these things be put in order BEFORE you get married. There's never any insurance that any marriage will make it. But, if you decide beforehand to make managing finances a priority you've got a chance. I hope all his hard work leads to a sooner than anticipated payoff!
Jerry
www.leads4insuranc.com
US Financial Freedom, a Debt Settlement program is an innovative solution without filing bankruptcy for consumers who are considering credit counseling or bankruptcy with debt burdens. Debt Settlement !
I recently came across your blog and have been reading along. I thought I would leave my first comment. I don't know what to say except that I have enjoyed reading. Nice blog. I will keep visiting this blog very often.
I am not a woman but have a similar situation. Newly married with our first child on the way. I have come to find out she inherited 150K in CC & other debt in her previous marriage (or he did) Her ex-husband declared bankruptcy. I "forced" her to start the process of chapter 13 bankruptcy as an individual. I came to this decision after really examining her finances. If she continued down the same path she would be paying her CC debt (60K) for the next 22 years.
I'm now fighting extremely strong feelings of resentment toward her. Chapter 13 considers both incomes as a "source of income" for the reformation repayment plan. My high income does not help this situation. The bankruptcy has not been file yet. She is in a panic I will leave her -I will not. I very angry that I may have to pay another persons large debt. Does anyone have suggestions on dealing with this?
Thank you for such a thoughtful post -- and for such thoughtful commentators!
My friend passed this website on to me. My SO and I recently learned that he owes quite a bit to the IRS. I am terrified -- money is my big "thing." We are supposed to get married this summer, and we're trying to figure out how to make this work.
FF, your post accurately sums up how I feel; I'm glad to know I'm not alone. And I take heart that others have been in similar situations and have gotten through it.
Thank you!
Post a Comment